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Talk:Harry Kim
S.L.? What does the S.L. stand for in his name ? -- Q 07:43, 10 Apr 2005 (EDT) :The L was chosen in honour of David Livingston. (I saw this somewhere online, but I can't find the reference at the moment, sorry.) I have no idea what the S stands for. We don't know what S.L. means to Harry himself. Randee15 17:06, 10 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::Wait, where is the source that his middle name(s) is S.L.? Was it on a computer screen at some point, his academy diploma??? This seems like it should be removed. - AJ Halliwell 22:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC) :::It is from his personnel file seen in . --Jörg 22:21, 7 May 2006 (UTC) ::It's also on his Academy Diploma, same episode. (Readin yer "Federation Logos" thing....) - AJ Halliwell 22:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC) :::: S.L.? Which episode gave those as his middle initials?– [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| ''listening...]] 23:59, 1 September 2008 (UTC) :::: Scrap that. Got the answer from the 1st post... sorry.– [[User:Eyes Only|''Watching...]][[User Talk:Eyes Only| ''listening...]] 00:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC) PNA I added the PNA template because this article (and most of the other Voyager character articles) have a lot of information cluttered together. This info needs to be formatted better. --Galaxy001 00:22, 18 January 2006 (UTC) :I know my additions with the years are a little clunky, but that text needed to be broken up somehow. I rewrote a few sections, into a more Harry-centric tone, rather than an episode-synopsis tone. I wanted to highlight some of Harry's command experiences, especially in ( ) and welcome any improvements to this crazy time-stamp thing I squeezed in -- the time-stamps may need to be moved around, as I didn't do detailed research in the exact times of the episodes, and instead based it times off the existing text. It will definitely make it easier to edit, since instead of editing a huge "Aboard Voyager" section, we can take this mess in chunks. I really hate how some of these episode synopses are written, but I don't have the time to fix em all! o.O vorik111 02:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC) Operations Manager? Does anyone know if Harry Kim is the highest ranking Ops officer on Voyager? If I was the Captain, I'd have someone with more experience at that post, rather than a very young Ensign. Perhaps all the other ops people got killed during "Caretaker", or maybe Ops and Engineering was merged to make up for lost crewmembers, like on DS9, where Miles O'Brien is incharge of Ops and Engineering. Apparently it doesn't matter what rank the person is. I just saw "Investigations", and it would appear that the Operations Manager can even fire the weapons if needed. Actually, does anyone remember seeing other Ops people on Voyager? Zsingaya 15:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC) :Nope. Lieutenant Ayala filled in for him occasionally. Also, in Caretaker, he was assigned as the Chief of Operations, so presumably he sort of outranked those who actually outranked him, it's confusing. Also, Lieutenant Andrews was at Ops until Harry came in the first episode too. - AJ Halliwell 22:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC) ::The difference between rank and position. Position comes first. --OuroborosCobra talk 23:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC) :::Its true... Harry was mentioned from the beginning, to be assigned as Chief, meaning he outranked anyone who worked in the department with him. This also occurred when Wesley was assigned to the science team in "Pen Pals" -- even though Wesley was only an acting ensign, with much less authority or seniority, he was still in charge of the other more senior scientists because he was placed in such a position. -- Captain M.K.B. 01:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC) ::::Also remember, O'Brien was only a CPO, while some of the people under his command were L. Comm's. Position definitely means more than rank.– 14:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC) Early Life? How much is known about Harry's early life? The bio starts with his starfleet career, but the clown in The Thaw hints at some interesting experiences of Harry's as a child. Wheatleya 22:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC) From eBay From eBay , 6 images: * Cochrane Medal of Excellence * Academy Diploma * Extension course certificate * Flight Profiency Award * Harry and Libby * and Libby and Harry Cochrane Medal of Excellence : THE ZEFRAM COCHRANE INSTITUTE : FOR ADVANCED THEORETICAL PHYSICS : PRESENTS : THE COCHRANE : MEDAL OF EXCELLENCE : TO : HARRY S. L. KIM : For outstanding undergraduate : contributions in warp theory in the : development of tertiary field projection : equations for tetrion warp coil : simulation programming. : Presented stardate 47302.5 : Leah Brahms : ???, Zefram Cochrane Institute : for Advanced Theoretical Physics : Gene Roddenberry : Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command ??? ??? : ??? United Federation of Planets Academy Diploma : the Joseph Carey diploma is shown. This is assuming it is the same with Harry's name replaced. : Upon ??? ??? ??? ???: : STARFLEET ACADEMY : (2371 Starfleet symbol) : HARRY KIM : ??? ??? ??? : ??? ??? ??? : ??? ??? ??? : ??? ??? ??? : ??? ??? United Federation of Planets. : ??? Stardate ??? June 6, 2???. : ??? ??? Gene Roddenberry : Commandant, Starfleet Academy Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command Extension Course Certificate : CERTIFICATE OF : COMPLETION : ISSUED TO : HARRY S. L. KIM : (academy symbol) : FOR SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION : OF ACADEMY EXTENSION COURSE #4077 : ENGINEERING DEEVELOPMENT sic : IN NON-HUMANOID SOCIETIES : FALL SEMESTER, 2371 : C??? S??? : INSTRUCTOR : ??? ??? : DEAN OF STUDENTS Flight Proficiency Award : STARFLEET ACADEMY : FLIGHT PROFICIENCY AWARD : Presented to : CADET HARRY KIM : Falcon Squadron : Third Academy Training Wing : CAPT. DAVID LIVINGSTON CAPT. BRAD YACOBIAN : Wing Commander Squadron Leader : CAPT. BRANNON BRAGA CAPT. JERRY FLECK : Flight ??? Academy Flight Ops Kaltoh pic In this article, the Kal-toh image doesn't show up in my browser (it just shows a link above the caption). I've looked at the formatting on the page and it seems the same as for the surrounding images. The image link must be correct because removal of the "thumb" displays the image properly at full size. What's the deal? – Cleanse 07:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC) :Might be something wrong with your browser. It appears just fine both here and in the article for me. I suggest clearing your cash (ctrl+F5) --OuroborosCobra talk 08:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC) Yeah, it's just Firefox, works fine in IE. I cleared the cache but it still doesn't work in FF. It's not a real issue seeing that its the only image on MA that doesn't show up. Thanks for your help – Cleanse 08:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC) ::Shows up on mine. 12:28, August 16, 2012 (UTC) :::Note the date. 2007. 5 years ago. -- sulfur (talk) 12:37, August 16, 2012 (UTC) Harry's ethnicity Is he Korean, as implied by his family name? Chinese, as is Garrett Wang himself?Toddsschneider 02:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC) :In terms of personal speculation, I'd go by "Kim" and say Korean, although for some reason he has decided to put his surname last, unlike Korean tradition. As for canon, I don't believe it is ever stated. --OuroborosCobra talk 05:53, 7 December 2007 (UTC) It makes you wonder if the producers were just trying to be politically correct and try to appeal to as many Asians as possible by making him non-specific, and hence quite inauthentic. As for the placement of his names, his family is "Americanized" (with names like John and Mary), so the great melting-pot of today continues into the future.Toddsschneider 11:09, 7 December 2007 (UTC) ::I think he is chinese. 12:30, August 16, 2012 (UTC) Reason for being ensign? Was it ever explained why he was never promoted in the 7 years Voyager was out there? Even though others like Tom Paris got demoted, then promoted again. :I don't believe it was ever addressed specifically. I think his Mom offered to write a letter to Janeway asking why he hadn't been once she had heard he was still an Ensign(in the 7th Season) but they didn't say any more about it. --31dot 20:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC) It's the one thing that bothers me about voyager. Even the maquis crewmembers got promoted. But then again maybe provisional and crewmen ranks are all the captains are authorized to do. But, im not too sure. ::If he is an Ensign, why is he considered a senior officer? (in ) – Distantlycharmed 19:21, 24 October 2008 (UTC) :::Off topic question, but the answer is that position and grade aren't the same thing. --OuroborosCobra talk 20:31, 24 October 2008 (UTC) :::: Back to the original question, this was actually specifically addressed, twice, in Season 7. The following, from , is the best explanation: ::::* KIM: "I've been on Voyager for almost seven years and I'm still an Ensign." ::::* JANEWAY: "If this is your way of bucking for a promotion." ::::* KIM: "No, no, I understand there's a command structure and that our circumstances are unique, but the fact is, if we were back home, I'd be a Lieutenant by now. Maybe even a Lieutenant Commander." :::: What 31dot was close to cracking, and contrary to his reply, was the weaker of the two explanations: ::::* JOHN KIM: "So when is she giving you a promotion?" ::::* HARRY KIM: "It's a small ship. There are only so many command positions available." :::: These last two lines were taken from . --Alan 21:09, 24 October 2008 (UTC) :@70.119.185.104, what Maquis members were ever promoted? Chakotay obviously can't be (he was already Commander, the only higher one would be Captain), Torres was Lieutenant the whole time, those were the only two cast members who were Maquis. Tom Paris used to be, but he was never really promoted (he started out as Lieutenant JG, got demoted to Ensign, then eventually promoted back to Lieutenant JG). 17:30, September 1, 2010 (UTC) temporal significance ? in a lot of the episodes harry seems to have great importance in alternate versions of the ship be it alternate time lines or copy of the crew :Yeah...seems he has better luck then. --Alan 21:09, 24 October 2008 (UTC) death Removed: *"2372 (replaced by alternate timeline duplicate for the remainder of the show)" ...exists in article. oh and it's not an alternate timeline it was a duplicate voyager caused by whatever it was — Morder 08:00, 17 October 2008 (UTC) :Actually, I disagree with removing this. We have the "original" Miles O'Brien's death in his sidebar in what seems to be a comparable situation. And the original Harry did die in the ep, didn't he? Why shouldn't this be in the sidebar? The fact that it "exists in the article" is actually an argument for having it there, because the sidebar is meant to summarise important info like that.– Cleanse 00:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC) ::"remainder of the show" should come out though. "2372" and "the show" are not compatible in the same sentence. Howbout in-universe? --TribbleFurSuit 02:46, 29 January 2009 (UTC) :Of course. :-) How about "2372; replaced by duplicate". In-universe and to the point.– Cleanse 03:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC) ::: Is there any indication that the surviving Harry wasn't every bit as much "the original" as the one who died? My understanding of the episode was that Voyager (and thus Harry) got split into two identical, equally authentic copies, neither one superseding the other. One could just as easily say that the "original" Janeway, Chakotay and the rest died, and Harry is the only surviving "original", while the others from that episode onwards are "duplicates". What I mean to say is, I think terms such as "original" should be deprecated because it implies the other ship was not equally "original". It's like if you take a magnet and split it in two, how can you say either half is "the original"? --Samy Merchi 04:05, 1 September 2009 (UTC) ::::It doesn't matter since the ship he's on is the one that he's a duplicate on. — Morder (talk) 05:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC) Year of return to Alpha Quadrant I'm confused, on here it says Kim returned in 2377 but on the USS Voyager page it says the ship didn't get back until 2378, which is it? – 15:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC) :Fixed. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC) Harry's rank vs. B'Elanna's I mentioned this on B'Elanna's talk page as well some months ago but evidently no one noticed. The rank parity between the two of them seems rather confused. In several episodes "Future's End" coming to mind--Kim took command of the bridge and even gave orders to B'Elanna. While I know he was commissioned a Starfleet officer, on the MA "ranking Officer" page, it says that the first determiant of a ranking officer is rank. Even though Kim was commissioned beforehand, he was still an ensign. The lowest-ranked lieutenant j.g. always outranks any ensign. It also gets more interesting to consider "Voyager"'s rank issues in light of dialogue mentioned in "Investigations" that Lt. Rollins was Paris' direct superior. If Rollins (a Starfleet officer who took command in "Caretaker" when Janeway left the bridge) along with other "Lts." such as Andrews and Ayala) was Paris' superior, he should have been among the senior officers. Obviously he was not, whereas Neelix, Kes, Seven of Nine and a holographic program were staff officers and even gave orders to Starfleet personnel on occasions too numerous to count. Paris also seemed to be third officer, (based on "Unimatrix Zero", "Hope and Fear" and "Renassiance Man" where he clearly was seated in command and gave orders to other bridge personnel). So Paris was third officer but reported to Lt. Rollins who wasn't a senior officer. Can anyone make sense of this? This is just another example of position vs rank, wherein often position often takes priority over rank. If an admiral takes over for a fallen ensign at the helm position, and a lieutenant has the conn, the admiral will take orders from the lieutenant. In fact this actually happens in Voyager once; on a shuttle that Paris is piloting and hence in command of, he beams aboard the captain and instructs her to do something at the tactical station, to which she even responds "aye, sir!" 04:08, May 28, 2014 (UTC) Harry's Prime Universe Body is in Star Trek Online During the Vaadwaur invasion of Kobali Prime, I noticed that Harry's body was walking with the player character near the end of a mission in Act 3, but then the camera panned to a Harry Kim in a stasis pod. I immediately recognised this as the Prime Universe Harry Kim where he died in a hull breach. Would it be wise to edit the 2372 text to read that instead of being transported off-screen, that "In Star Trek Online, Harry Kim's corpse, the one who died in the hull breach, is seen in the Kobali Temple harbouring Vaadwaur in stasis pods, and a female Kobali is protecting Kim's corpse." 05:58, December 2, 2014 (UTC) :This info could be added to the "Apocrypha" section or the background note in the 2372 section, thought it should be a separate note (EG: ...some point off screen.|The "original" Harry Kim's corpse is seen in Star Trek Online...). - 06:12, December 2, 2014 (UTC)